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The Infamous 1.2x Gap; I wont buy it
Topic Started: Jul 2 2013, 08:34 AM (2,298 Views)
Professor Freeza
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The 1.2x Power gap is widely considered as the least power gap for a stomp . Yes , it was shown to be the least one . But lets be realistic here . the 1.1x gap is considered a rivaling power gap , which does extend to 1.15x sometimes. Yet , a person who is 1.043x stronger than him is considered some who can stomp the weaker guy ? We have seen a KKx3 Goku vs a FP vegeta . Goku was 1.33x stronger than Vegeta at that time , yet he didnt stomp him . One can argue that a 24000 Pl Vegeta stomped an 18000 Pl Cui , indicating that Goku dint want to end vegeta . But that would be invalid because i can say that that attack could very well be a highly amplified attack . Plus , we saw SSj2 vegeta vs Kid Buu . Kid Buu was showing No mercy to a guy about 5x Weaker than him but actually didnt one shot him . There are Countless examples showing that a power gap more than 1.2x wasnt a Stomping gap . That proves that the 1.2x gap isnt an "Absolute" stomp gap and is an extremely rare case .

So , i request the highly knowledgeable members here to think about this and try not to bring this power gap in discussions or debate , unless its an extremely rare case
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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

I think the 1.2x stronger thing definitely has its merits. It's basically just saying no matter how much fighting prowess or magic you have, your face is likely to get smashed in. The fight isn't a foregone conclusion, but, obviously, fighter A (1.2x stronger than B) is probably going to win.

Anything less than 1.2x, while Fighter A has a power advantage, individual fighting expertise, tactics, energy attacks, etc. come into play a lot more.
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Professor Freeza
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Thats what i am actually against . Anything less than 1.2x needs skills and other factors to build on the power advantage , yet when the gap becomes exactly 1.2x , those factors are not required at all . And then , we have countless evidences that Fighter A has a 1.3x / 1.4x or even a 1.5x power advantage and still doesnt stomp Fighter B . Thats no fair deal . The Majority ks not considered but something which has been shown once or twice is taken as absolute ? Not impressive
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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

Well, I look at it like 7/10 times Fighter A (with the 1.2x boost) beats B. Not every single time, but, overcoming an opponent 20% stronger will usually result in B losing, usually.
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Vertical
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I do not believe that you can use a survival feat to disregard the implied gap. Take Mr Satan vs Cell for example... general excuses like "gag" or "holding back" or "durability" can be used to disregard likely any survival feat in the series.
DeviantART
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Sam
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It takes a mere second for treasure to turn to trash.

Or SSj Broly clotheslining Videl :p
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Professor Freeza
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^ non canon alert

Well , just because one thing is stated once [or twice] in a whole series , it doenst make it an absolute fact . And if thats the case , Cell shouldnt have survived that KHH from SSj2 Gohan
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+ miguelnuva
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I go with the gaps needed to beat someone gets larger the higher power levels go, it matches better with the plot.
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Gogeta power placement
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Professor Freeza
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^ yes , exactly , thats what i believe .
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Vertical
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Professor Freeza
Jul 2 2013, 09:30 AM
Well , just because one thing is stated once [or twice] in a whole series , it doenst make it an absolute fact .
Unless contradicted... it basically does.

Professor Freeza
Jul 2 2013, 09:30 AM
And if thats the case , Cell shouldnt have survived that KHH from SSj2 Gohan
In response to that I note my initial post:
Vertical
Jul 2 2013, 09:21 AM
I do not believe that you can use a survival feat to disregard the implied gap. Take Mr Satan vs Cell for example... general excuses like "gag" or "holding back" or "durability" can be used to disregard likely any survival feat in the series.
I can simply [and safely] claim that Gohan was holding back.


Gaps increasing as the fighters get stronger would be directly contradicted by the Super Buu/Fantastic Gohan/Buutenks battles... if you believe Buu's absorption to be addition based [which it likely is].

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+ Clearin
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The 1.2x gap comes from Veegta vs Dodoria doesn't it? If so then that's an awful fight to use as an exampe. Toriyama has stated that yuuki (bravery) plays a role in outcomes of battles. Since Dodoria was terrified then he wouldn't have been able to fight to the best of his ability. He also said that shouki (being in ones right mind) is important too, which of course Dodoria wasn't.

Then you have the possibility of Vegeta just being much more skilled than Dodoria, and the fact Dodoria cannot sense Ki which gives him a disadvantage in battle as he'd have to rely purely on his eyes.
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Professor Freeza
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Well , Gohan wasnt holding back enough . an amplified Super KHH from a FP PC would make the KHH nearly as strong as [IMO] 75% of FP SSj2 Kid Gohan . Gohan was to raise his power over that much to counter that KHH , that is , without Amplifying his own KHH .

And yes , just becoz it doesnt contradicts anything , doenst mean it has to be 100% right .

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The 1.2x gap comes from Veegta vs Dodoria doesn't it? If so then that's an awful fight to use as an exampe. Toriyama has stated that yuuki (bravery) plays a role in outcomes of battles. Since Dodoria was terrified then he wouldn't have been able to fight to the best of his ability. He also said that shouki (being in ones right mind) is important too, which of course Dodoria wasn't.

Then you have the possibility of Vegeta just being much more skilled than Dodoria, and the fact Dodoria cannot sense Ki which gives him a disadvantage in battle as he'd have to rely purely on his eyes.


I agree , plus that attack can be amplified as well . Vegeta did have the skill of amplifying attacks just as good as the Z Warriors had
Edited by Professor Freeza, Jul 2 2013, 11:45 AM.
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EMIYA
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"I am the bone of my sword."

Survival feats is a poor way to look at it and it directly contradicts what's shown, more or less if we assume one person is holding back. Our first real look at a stomping gap at its lowest percentage was Vegeta vs Cui where we could get actually get a real number. We have Cui rivaling at about 18,000 (the same as Saiyan Arc Vegeta) and Vegeta at 24,000. That gave us about a 1.3x difference.

Now let's say Dodoria is being affected by confidence and state of mind and that the power he used is weaker than what he's capable of. What he was using was clearly stomp worthy by Vegeta. And isn't it fair to say that Dodoria would at least by using more power at his disposal than Cui? Now if Cui was 1.3x weaker than Vegeta, than its fair to say that Dodoria was about 1.2x weaker and maybe if he wasn't scared or out of his mind, that difference might have been 1.10x or 1.15x.

One of the few times the 1.2x things has a problem is against Zarbon. Monster Zarbon was crushing Vegeta, leading us to expect a 1.2x difference.

Against the Ginyu Squad, Vegeta is stated to be around 30,000 and here's where the problem arises.

Vegeta: 24,000

Monster Zarbon: 28,000+ (1.2x over Vegeta)

Zenkai Vegeta: 30,000

That only puts a 1.07x difference between Vegeta and Zarbon, despite the fact that while he had to put in effort, Vegeta clearly had the advantage.
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Professor Freeza
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We cant really accept that Dodoria moves about with his FP . Not everyone can raise Power levels . Ginyu was said to be an exception , having that kind of ability . I bet Dodoria wasnt at Full Power , like Nappa . Plus , like u said , the 1.07x gap between Post Zenkai vegeta vs Monster Zarbon
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Zenet
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What about the fight with Zarbon.
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